Using Hall Effect Sensors as chuff triggers - Revision history

EricTimberlake at 19:00, 24 May 2023

2023-05-24T19:00:38Z

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	[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->		[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->
			[[Category:Pending Review]] <span style="color:red;"><br>New or modified article by [[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]]) undergoing review<br></span>

	Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.		Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.

EricTimberlake at 00:50, 22 May 2023

2023-05-22T00:50:38Z

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	[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->		[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->
	[[Category:Works In Progress]] <span style="color:red;"><br>Under construction/modification by [[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]]) 22:28, 25 April 2023 (PDT)<br></span>

	Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.		Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.

DErik at 01:55, 21 May 2023

2023-05-21T01:55:45Z

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	[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->		[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->
	~~{{rtoc}}~~
	[[Category:Works In Progress]] <span style="color:red;"><br>Under construction/modification by [[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]]) 22:28, 25 April 2023 (PDT)<br></span>		[[Category:Works In Progress]] <span style="color:red;"><br>Under construction/modification by [[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]]) 22:28, 25 April 2023 (PDT)<br></span>

	Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.		Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.
			{{rtoc}}

	One of the things I like about Garden Scale railroads is that they are mostly not toys, they are solid working models of the “prototype" locomotive, including “realistic” sound.. Many of the current steam locomotives feature built in electronics to simulate the sound of the real thing, including synchronized chuff. I don’t know about you, but that “synchronized” part is extra meaningful to me. The models are big enough that you can clearly see them actuate, and when “auto chuff” is racing while the wheels barely turn, well, that’s a disappointing detail in what otherwise are many very beautiful models.		One of the things I like about Garden Scale railroads is that they are mostly not toys, they are solid working models of the “prototype" locomotive, including “realistic” sound.. Many of the current steam locomotives feature built in electronics to simulate the sound of the real thing, including synchronized chuff. I don’t know about you, but that “synchronized” part is extra meaningful to me. The models are big enough that you can clearly see them actuate, and when “auto chuff” is racing while the wheels barely turn, well, that’s a disappointing detail in what otherwise are many very beautiful models.

DErik at 01:36, 21 May 2023

2023-05-21T01:36:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:36, 20 May 2023
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	~~[[Category:Chuff]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Chuff" -->~~
	[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->		[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->
	~~[[Category:Projects]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Projects" -->~~
	{{rtoc}}		{{rtoc}}
			[[Category:Works In Progress]] <span style="color:red;"><br>Under construction/modification by [[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]]) 22:28, 25 April 2023 (PDT)<br></span>

	~~= Using Hall Effect Sensors as Chuff Triggers =~~
	Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.		Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.

EricTimberlake: /* related video */

2023-04-26T05:28:32Z

EricTimberlake at 21:37, 10 April 2023

2023-04-10T21:37:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:37, 10 April 2023
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	[[Category:Chuff]]		[[Category:Chuff]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Chuff" -->
	[[Category:Electronics]]		[[Category:Electronics]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Electronics" -->
	[[Category:Projects]]		[[Category:Projects]] <!-- Include this page in the category called "Projects" -->
	{{rtoc}}		{{rtoc}}

EricTimberlake at 20:56, 10 April 2023

2023-04-10T20:56:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:56, 10 April 2023
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	In this article, I will discuss my current method to provide chuff input to models that may or may not be "ready for prime time" in this regard..		In this article, I will discuss my current method to provide chuff input to models that may or may not be "ready for prime time" in this regard..

	== premise ==		== the premise ==
	[[File:Shay Tripple OEM chuff trigger.jpg\|alt=OEM Chuff Sensor from a Backman Shay\|thumb\|267x267px\|Shay Chuff Sensor]]		[[File:Shay Tripple OEM chuff trigger.jpg\|alt=OEM Chuff Sensor from a Backman Shay\|thumb\|267x267px\|Shay Chuff Sensor]]
	A few years ago I was asked to upgrade a mid generation Bachmann 38 Ton Two truck Shay. This locomotive uses an Upright Inline Triple Cylinder arrangement and as a model, it looks fantastic.. However, the built in chuff sensor has proven to be a design failure of epic proportions. (See Photo 1) The trigger switch is comprised of two thin sheets of brass arranged as three simple "fingers" reaching into the motor where the piston-less push rod would poke it and create a signal for the sound card or sound capable decoder. The issue is that the fingers are often out of alignment and corroded/oxidized. This leads to missing chuffs, and to "jitter" chuffs where a single contact results in 10's of chuff triggers all at once due to switch bounce. Working on this friends Shay, I replaced this troublesome assembly with reed switches and tiny magnets.. It was a TEDIOUS job. It took three tries to get it right... Endless frustrating hours of work.. After I got it working I vowed to never again go the route of small expensive reed switches. The root of the issue is the very specific polarization required to operate a reed switch.. A reed switch requires an aligned field from N to S along the length of the switch. This is just plain difficult to achieve in many applications when MOST small neodymium magnets mount with just just the N or S pole facing the target area.		A few years ago I was asked to upgrade a mid generation Bachmann 38 Ton Two truck Shay. This locomotive uses an Upright Inline Triple Cylinder arrangement and as a model, it looks fantastic.. However, the built in chuff sensor has proven to be a design failure of epic proportions. (See Photo 1) The trigger switch is comprised of two thin sheets of brass arranged as three simple "fingers" reaching into the motor where the piston-less push rod would poke it and create a signal for the sound card or sound capable decoder. The issue is that the fingers are often out of alignment and corroded/oxidized. This leads to missing chuffs, and to "jitter" chuffs where a single contact results in 10's of chuff triggers all at once due to switch bounce. Working on this friends Shay, I replaced this troublesome assembly with reed switches and tiny magnets.. It was a TEDIOUS job. It took three tries to get it right... Endless frustrating hours of work.. After I got it working I vowed to never again go the route of small expensive reed switches. The root of the issue is the very specific polarization required to operate a reed switch.. A reed switch requires an aligned field from N to S along the length of the switch. This is just plain difficult to achieve in many applications when MOST small neodymium magnets mount with just just the N or S pole facing the target area.
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	First, I ordered and tested a wide range of Hall Effect Sensors from Digikey Electronics. These devices are small transistor like devices with three leads and an array of sensors inside that can detect a magnetic field. When such a field is detected, it turns on an "Open Collector" output which is effectively just a small switch to ground. I ultimately chose an "omni polar" (doesn't care about North or South poles on the magnets) device made by Texas Instruments, the DRV5033 in a modified TO-93 package. That's a form factor with real leads vs. a surface mount micro-dot that is so very common in todays electronics. This device cost $1.67 each at my last purchase. A typical reed switch, especially a small one can top $5 each pretty easily.		First, I ordered and tested a wide range of Hall Effect Sensors from Digikey Electronics. These devices are small transistor like devices with three leads and an array of sensors inside that can detect a magnetic field. When such a field is detected, it turns on an "Open Collector" output which is effectively just a small switch to ground. I ultimately chose an "omni polar" (doesn't care about North or South poles on the magnets) device made by Texas Instruments, the DRV5033 in a modified TO-93 package. That's a form factor with real leads vs. a surface mount micro-dot that is so very common in todays electronics. This device cost $1.67 each at my last purchase. A typical reed switch, especially a small one can top $5 each pretty easily.

	== the ~~DRV5033A~~ ==		== the sensor ==
	'''<big>https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/DRV5033AJQLPGQ1/6571747</big>'''		'''<big>https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/DRV5033AJQLPGQ1/6571747</big>'''

	The DRV5033 is a “non-electronics savvy” modelers dream device. It is tolerant of up to 38 volts applied in ANY possible way.. You cannot hurt this device in your train, it just may not work if you have it wired up wrong, but it WILL NOT self destruct under normal circumstances.. This makes it ideal for the non-electronics aware modeling nerd - you simply have to know which pins are what. And you could just GUESS if you wanted, though looking at the data sheet is a lot easier than testing all nine permutations of possible attachment combinations..		The '''DRV5033''' is a “non-electronics savvy” modelers dream device. It is tolerant of up to 38 volts applied in ANY possible way.. You cannot hurt this device in your train, it just may not work if you have it wired up wrong, but it WILL NOT self destruct under normal circumstances.. This makes it ideal for the non-electronics aware modeling nerd - you simply have to know which pins are what. And you could just GUESS if you wanted, though looking at the data sheet is a lot easier than testing all nine permutations of possible attachment combinations..

	== the magnet ==		== the magnet ==

EricTimberlake at 20:44, 10 April 2023

2023-04-10T20:44:01Z

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	~~WIP - not finished just yet!~~
	~~--[[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]])~~
	[[Category:Chuff]]		[[Category:Chuff]]
	[[Category:Electronics]]		[[Category:Electronics]]
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	{{rtoc}}		{{rtoc}}

	= Using Hall Effect Sensors as ~~chuff triggers~~ =		= Using Hall Effect Sensors as Chuff Triggers =
	Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.		Upgrading your Chuff Sensor to Hall Effect Sensors for seriously accurate, seriously reliable chuff.

EricTimberlake: /* related video */

2023-04-10T20:40:38Z

related video

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:40, 10 April 2023
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	== the DRV5033A ==		== the DRV5033A ==
	https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/DRV5033AJQLPGQ1/6571747		'''<big>https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/DRV5033AJQLPGQ1/6571747</big>'''

	The DRV5033 is a “non-electronics savvy” modelers dream device. It is tolerant of up to 38 volts applied in ANY possible way.. You cannot hurt this device in your train, it just may not work if you have it wired up wrong, but it WILL NOT self destruct under normal circumstances.. This makes it ideal for the non-electronics aware modeling nerd - you simply have to know which pins are what. And you could just GUESS if you wanted, though looking at the data sheet is a lot easier than testing all nine permutations of possible attachment combinations..		The DRV5033 is a “non-electronics savvy” modelers dream device. It is tolerant of up to 38 volts applied in ANY possible way.. You cannot hurt this device in your train, it just may not work if you have it wired up wrong, but it WILL NOT self destruct under normal circumstances.. This makes it ideal for the non-electronics aware modeling nerd - you simply have to know which pins are what. And you could just GUESS if you wanted, though looking at the data sheet is a lot easier than testing all nine permutations of possible attachment combinations..
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	The next step is a little more challenging, but the internet, if you dig hard enough, has everything, right? In this case we are looking for SMALL magnets. These are harder to find than I would have thought, but I DID finally find a supplier that featured VERY SMALL disc shaped Neodymium magnets. I ordered the 1mm around by 1/2mm thick. Actually, I ordered several sizes to support my future experiments and projects..		The next step is a little more challenging, but the internet, if you dig hard enough, has everything, right? In this case we are looking for SMALL magnets. These are harder to find than I would have thought, but I DID finally find a supplier that featured VERY SMALL disc shaped Neodymium magnets. I ordered the 1mm around by 1/2mm thick. Actually, I ordered several sizes to support my future experiments and projects..

	https://supermagnetman.com/collections/micro-magnets		'''<big>https://supermagnetman.com/collections/micro-magnets</big>'''

	I picked VERY SMALL magnets for a reason, and that reason is sensitivity. The "stroke" of a Bachmann Shay cylinder is about 5/8 of an inch. If you put a typically available “small”, sat 1/8 x 1/16 of an inch vs. a "micro" magnet, the DRV5033 will trigger when the rod is still 1/4" away. Turn the motor 120 degrees and we find that cylinder one is still close enough to be in trigger mode when cylinder two ALSO triggers, then the same with cylinder two to three another 120 degrees along - the chuff triggers, when viewed as a WHOLE, never de-trigger! To help with this, we use a VERY SMALL MAGNET that won't trigger the DRV5033 until its only a few MM away, giving us time to UN-trigger before the next cylinder reaches the Top Dead Center trigger point.. This is slightly different from mounting magnets to a driver wheel, where you might actually want a stronger magnet to reach the sensor.. Also, placing a magnet in a little pocket in these pot metal wheels seems to weaken the magnetic field a touch in my experience.		I picked VERY SMALL magnets for a reason, and that reason is sensitivity. The "stroke" of a Bachmann Shay cylinder is about 5/8 of an inch. If you put a typically available “small”, sat 1/8 x 1/16 of an inch vs. a "micro" magnet, the DRV5033 will trigger when the rod is still 1/4" away. Turn the motor 120 degrees and we find that cylinder one is still close enough to be in trigger mode when cylinder two ALSO triggers, then the same with cylinder two to three another 120 degrees along - the chuff triggers, when viewed as a WHOLE, never de-trigger! To help with this, we use a VERY SMALL MAGNET that won't trigger the DRV5033 until its only a few MM away, giving us time to UN-trigger before the next cylinder reaches the Top Dead Center trigger point.. This is slightly different from mounting magnets to a driver wheel, where you might actually want a stronger magnet to reach the sensor.. Also, placing a magnet in a little pocket in these pot metal wheels seems to weaken the magnetic field a touch in my experience.
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	= related video =		= related video =

	https://youtu.be/UT7dVgtUHes		'''<big>https://youtu.be/UT7dVgtUHes</big>'''

	38 Ton Two Truck Shay provided by fellow RCGRS Member Phil Yokers. Thanks, Phil! A privilege working on your model!		38 Ton Two Truck Shay provided by fellow RCGRS Member Phil Yokers. Thanks, Phil! A privilege working on your model!

	--[[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]])		--[[User:EricTimberlake\|Eric Timberlake]] ([[User talk:EricTimberlake\|talk]])

EricTimberlake: /* variations */

2023-04-10T20:38:41Z

variations

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:38, 10 April 2023
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	Here's a link to a way too long video of the Shay being put together using a prototype Hall Effect Sensor assembly.		Here's a link to a way too long video of the Shay being put together using a prototype Hall Effect Sensor assembly.

			= related video =

	https://youtu.be/UT7dVgtUHes		https://youtu.be/UT7dVgtUHes

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:28, 25 April 2023
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	= related video =		= related video =

			<youtube>UT7dVgtUHes</youtube>

	'''<big>https://youtu.be/UT7dVgtUHes</big>'''		'''<big>https://youtu.be/UT7dVgtUHes</big>'''